How many apostates does it take to change a JW? Only one, but the JW has to WANT to change. Smile
Steve
Steve Lowry
JoinedPosts by Steve Lowry
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17
Well, I've done it..........
by wannaexit ini have successfully deprogrammed my first dub.. my very good friend has finally seen the light.
i am so happy that the shackles have come off.
she is in the process of reading coc and has stopped going to meetings.. i have made my first apostate disciple.. wannaexit
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To Joysome
by Steve Lowry in"i've been on this site for about a week now.
i'm here because i am confused but honestly the more i come to this site the more bogus i feel that it is.
it actually makes me believe in the truth even more it really does".
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Steve Lowry
"I've been on this site for about a week now. I'm here because I am confused but honestly the more I come to this site the more bogus I feel that it is. It actually makes me believe in the TRUTH even more it really does". Joysome,
It sounds like you?re experiencing the approach/avoidance syndrome. Illustrated nicely by the little boy who wants to go into the water at the beach. He puts in a toe and its cold so he pulls back. But he still wants to go into the water. So, he puts in a foot and it?s really cold and he again pulls back. This process goes on until he either jumps in all together or he forgets the whole thing cuz its either not what he thinks he wants or he is just too afraid to continue.
This is very typical for one who is considering taking on a change in life. In your case it seems you may be questioning what you believe or perhaps more importantly what you have been taught to believe.
So, what is it that prompts you to say this site is "bogus" anyway? I?d like to know what you?re thinking. I?m not going to attack you in any way. Just be honest about what you?re feeling/thinking. If you don?t ask the hard questions, you won?t get the real answers.
"Like I said earlier I'm sorry that you guys ran into bad situations in the truth but when you run into bad situations in the world where are you going to go then?"
This is the easiest and yet most difficult answer to explain. Easy, because its so obvious to the one who can see clearly (objectively), and difficult for the one who can not. As a Jehovah?s Witness, you have been trained to believe you need to belong to a greater or larger group such as the Watchtower Society (ala the Truth) or you?re in error. You?re in the group and you?re right, or you?re not in the group and you?re wrong. So of course if you?re out of the group all that can happen to you out there (in the "world") is going to be "wrong" and you won?t have the group for support. Don?t focus on what can go wrong look for what can go right!
Contrary to what you have been taught and trained, you don?t need the Watchtower Society, it needs YOU. And THAT?S the Truth! The Watchtower Society would fold up and close its doors tomorrow without the well-intentioned good folks who are its followers. There?s a kind of symbiosis thing going on there between the organization and the follower. The follower gets the reinforcement and security of belonging to something greater and the organization gets the necessary replenishment it needs to thrive. Kinda like an ant colony. But are you an ant? Is that all what you want to be? Or do you want to experience more? Well, with freedom comes the responsibility of making good choices and the acknowledgment that YOU are in control of you life. And yes there are risks outside the colony, but there is also much to explore and much to experience. Make new friends, develop deep relationships with people who aren?t going to turn their backs on you if you question or challenge the system. Continue you quest for God. God isn?t dependent on the Watchtower Society to be in your life. That?s a lie perpetrated by such groups to keep the rank and file in line. You?re going to discover just how loving God is once you put aside the restraints you have been trained to place on Him. Certainly some former JW?s choose to abandon their belief in God (that?s their path) but that doesn?t mean you have to. I left the Watchtower Society twenty-five years ago and rediscovered God shortly they?re after. God?s love for you isn?t contingent on you being associated with the Watchtower Organization. But you?re going to have to risk moving out farther away from the colony to find that out. How brave are you Joysome?
Steve
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I knew I couldnt avoid them forever... Hi there, new here
by Butterfliez inwhew*....i finally registered, and guess what?!
it wasnt as hard as i thought it would be lol.
i've been lurking here, quietly and observing the board for about 2 years now.
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Steve Lowry
Hi Buterfliez,
Have you ever done a worst case scenario in your mind? For instance, "What?s the worst thing that could happen if . . .". Very often if you try and imagine the worst thing that could happen, given a particular event or decision or circumsatnce, etc., you discover that the final ?worst? thing really isn?t all that bad in the end. In fact it can open up new possibilities. Here?s an example to help you picture what I mean:
I hate my present job, so what?s the worst thing that could happen if I decide not to go to work today?
I could get in trouble.
What?s that worst thing that could happen if I get in trouble at work?
I could get fired.
What?s the worst thing that could happen if I get fired?
I?d have to find another job.
In this scenario it resolves nicely as it shows giving you an opportunity to find another place to work that you might like better than your old job! It doesn?t always pan out so tidy, but it can illuminate other possibilities you hadn?t considered. I?m forty-eight years old and I have learned that very often in life, the outcomes of events we fear don?t actually turnout out exactly the way we worry that they will anyway.
As for your dilemma, as long as you know in your heart that the Watchtower Society and the JW religion is wrong and you have divorced yourself from it psychologically and emotionally, then everything else is secondary. The biggest pitfall for the former JW, is not really knowing where he or she stands regarding their former religion. Once they finally get this part of the puzzle resolved within them, then everything else is just circumstance. So meet with the elders, or tell them what they can do with their meeting. Avoid them or confront them. Be overt about your decision or covert. But YOU decide. You stay in control, not them. Never forget that. It?s all about control, and they want to be in charge over you. That?s the cult mentality.
I gotta admit I like the suggestion in this thread about you promising the JW elders you?ll have legal counsel at your meeting. I don?t know if that will make a difference in the total outcome, but this is the kind of fun you can have with this situation. I actually had a ball when my elder?s meeting happened. These two pompous pious morons came out to my house unannounced. I had no idea about ?judicial meetings? and all that, but I soon understood this was a ?you?re in or out? meeting. So I told them what I really thought about their religion and them personally and I got up a walked out of the room. I didn?t even show them the courtesy of walking them out. But I was on my own at that time and I could do such things without any fear of reprisal. Your situation is a little different.
I?m sure you realize there will be risks involved in being open about your true feelings. And if you do decide to be forthright and open, it could indeed create difficulties for you at home. Your wise for your years but you are still a minor and somewhat dependent on your (JW) family at this present time. And since you were baptized there is a high probability you will experience some relationship difficulties with your JW family members. Never underestimate the mind control of a religious cultic group such as the Watchtower Organization and the power it has over the week minded. I do have to admit that in talking with hundreds of former JW?s over ten year?s time, there is almost always some kind of family breakdown when a JW family member leaves the Watchtower. It?s practically inevitable. But what are your choices? You?ve got to be true to who you are, first. And you?ve got to be willing to make the sacrifices of being who you are regardless of the consequences. There?s nothing like the feeling of knowing who you are in this world. There?s real power in knowing who you are and what you believe in.
Be patient and keep in mind your current limitations. In time you will be in charge of your own life.
Steve
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What should I do?
by Scorpion ini have pioneered for over four years.
i have three children and a wife who at times has severe back problems.
i have worked two jobs just to stay ahead of the bills and provide for my family.
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Steve Lowry
Scorpion,
Have you considered another possibility? Does being a JW make you truly happy and give you inner peace? Perhaps this would be a good time in your life to reevaluate your personal ?map?, as it were. Is the ?map? you?ve been following, taking you to where you want to go?
Scorpion, you don?t need the Watchtower Society to have a good working relationship with God. People have been experiencing God in their lives for centuries, long before the Watchtower was ever thought of! Dare yourself to think outside of your current paradigm. God will never leave you because YOU leave the Watchtower Society. That?s a lie perpetrated by those in power over you. Countless people have left the Watchtower Society and gone to enjoy rich fulfilled spiritual lives, and without all the guilt and pressures and nonsensical rules placed on them by the Watchtower Society. It?s a man made, man run and man orchestrated religious institution. That?s all it is.
Let me ask you this question Scorpion. You say your children are little. Would you deny them, a life saving blood transfusion if the need presented itself, or would you allow them to die? If you would allow them to die, then you?re not a good parent. And if you would allow them the blood transfusion, then you?re not a good JW. Which is it my friend?
Steve lowry
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Are you really who you think you are?
by Mindchild ini recently enjoyed reading another post on an ex-jw board about how our past experiences as witnesses have shaped our lives and made us who we are.
there is obvious truth to the effect that our past experiences do effect how we see our selves now, but i think many people who leave the borg are still enslaved to the idea that they are the same person they were then.
i disagree and think things are a little more complex than that.
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Steve Lowry
If there’s one thing I have gained from the Watchtower experience, is that I can never again take for granted as truth, the things I "see". Because of the (Watchtower) experience, I have come to realize that damn near everything is perspective, or maybe I should say, perception. While I understand (at this year of my fortieth) that I am the culmination of my life’s experiences, I also realize I can’t allow even that to overly effect my perception of ‘reality’. I try to apply the following principles to keep me on track, as it were:
Resist giving in to the comfortable.
Continue to re-evaluate everything.
Always get as much information as possible and from multiple sources, before "buying".
Never disregard your ‘inner core’ feelings. Take the time to examine them.
Just about everyone and every group has an agenda, most of the time.
Don’t be afraid to go against the "popular" view.
Controversy is where the sparks of truth are very often born.
Ultimately, what we wind up doing, is what we want to do the most, for whatever the reason(s).
There isn’t always an answer for everything. Don’t be pressured into making a decision when all the ‘facts’ aren’t yet in.
Resist the temptation to take another person’s word for ‘it’. If there’s work involved in finding the answer, that probably means that is where the truth will be found.
There are probably more little principles I now try to live by, but these are at the core of them that I believe. Someone else can read these words, but it takes years of living and many life’s experiences to help a person to understand them completely. I am still just practicing them.
Steve . . .
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Do you still love your relatives/friends who shun you?
by HadEnuf inas i was participating in my daily duties of domestic slavery i got to ruminating about my mom, sister and brother who are shunning me (even though i am neither df'd of da'd).
i got to thinking to myself that i don't really miss them all that much.
in fact; i almost feel that i have lost the abundance of love that i once felt for them...well, except for my brother who i have never gotten along with anyway.
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Steve Lowry
My sister cut herself off from me 20 years ago. I never got a letter or a postcard or phone call in some 15 years. My two nephews and baby niece grew up without their uncle (me), all because of this stupid (albeit effective) cultic protectionism thing called ‘shunning’. Eight years ago when I had a little girl of my own, all of a sudden my sister wants to be all "family" and stuff. The hypocrisy of it disgusted me. I let her know through my JW mother I didn’t want anything to do with her or her family. I wonder how SHE feels to be shunned? I’ll never have anything to do with her no matter what the circumstances.
Been about nine months since I’ve heard from my mom. Guess she’s joined forces with the Watchtower losers. Well, I don’t need her either.
I gotta simple rule that works well for me. If’n you don’t wanna have anythin’ to do with me, I don’t wanna have nothin’ to do with you.
Steve
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Have you ever been compelled to talk someone into STAYING a JW?
by amac inmy jw father in law was recently stumbled over something rather silly.
this has happened before and he seems to think when he has a personal problem with someone that he'll show em by just not going to meetings and assuming that jws can't be right if people like those he has issues with are part of it.
normally this would be great, but when this happened in the past, he was just a grumpy work-a-holic and his wife was miserable.
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Steve Lowry
"Well anytime you aren't sure which course is correct I believe staying out of it is the best course."
Wish that I had read this before typing my response. It’s probably the best advice you’ll get in this thread.
Steve . . .
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Have you ever been compelled to talk someone into STAYING a JW?
by amac inmy jw father in law was recently stumbled over something rather silly.
this has happened before and he seems to think when he has a personal problem with someone that he'll show em by just not going to meetings and assuming that jws can't be right if people like those he has issues with are part of it.
normally this would be great, but when this happened in the past, he was just a grumpy work-a-holic and his wife was miserable.
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Steve Lowry
"So I have a choice between an active JW father-in-law who is happy, social and gets along better with his wife or an inactive JW father in law who is grumpy, always working, and whenever we're with them we have to listen to him and his wife bicker.
Which would you choose?"
Well, actually the choice is his to make and no one else’s. However, if you feel you could somehow sway his thinking, then choose the truth (not the "Truth").
If it meant, that as I looked back on my life, and someone who knew better than me (in this case that would be you) didn’t share that view with me cuz it made it easier for me to be around, I would be very disappointed in my friend for not informing me of the truth. Now, if someone who is very late on in years happened to be in this position, then I may not be so inclined to sway him or her out of their comfort zone. But if they are simply middle aged, then life still has much to offer, even if it comes with a price.
Steve
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Have you ever been compelled to talk someone into STAYING a JW?
by amac inmy jw father in law was recently stumbled over something rather silly.
this has happened before and he seems to think when he has a personal problem with someone that he'll show em by just not going to meetings and assuming that jws can't be right if people like those he has issues with are part of it.
normally this would be great, but when this happened in the past, he was just a grumpy work-a-holic and his wife was miserable.
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Steve Lowry
"But the fact is, if they left over petty reasons, (or maybe even with cause) would their lives go to hell again?"
Maybe, maybe not. But, a person shouldn’t justify living a ‘lie’ in any aspect of life (including religion), just because that ‘lie’ may" be the lesser of two evils. Sure, people who leave the Watchtower Society may loose their moral compass for a time, but according to my life’s experience, generally and usually folks find their ‘way’ as to who they are. Most people have enough survival instincts to survive the journey. I’ll tell you what I have many others and that is, freedom comes with the price of making wise and good decisions and this is a learning process.
Steve
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There are three kinds of people.
by qwerty inhello everyone, i have not posted for what seems like ages.
i have just start in mlm.
it's a bit like getting involved with jw's again but this time i am starting to earn money!
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Steve Lowry
Uh, there are actually only two kinds of people; those who believe there are two kinds of people and those who don't! (LOL)